Anti-Racist Social Work in England

In this episode, I talk with Wayne Reid, who is a Professional Officer and Anti-Racism Visionary at the British Association of Social Workers (BASW). Wayne is my first international guest, and I am so grateful! Wayne talks about how his understanding of anti-racism in social work and his motivation for speaking out and taking action was catalyzed by the murder of George Floyd. He discusses a number of projects he and BASW have been working on, specific to anti-racism in social work – check out the link to his extensive portfolio in the show notes. These are excellent resources. Wayne shares what anti-racist social work means to him and how a concept that should be straightforward becomes very complex in application due to the embeddedness of white supremacy and racism in laws, policies, institutions, beliefs, and actions. We discuss how no one wants to say they are racist, but actions that support racist policies are being done in the regular operations of social work practice. Wayne talks about his “pure, proactive, and unapologetic” approach to anti-racism within social work and the need for this approach due to constantly being up against white supremacy both as a Black man and as a Black male social worker. He discusses the need for social workers to practice anti-racism as part of our standards of conduct, not just with clients, but with colleagues, and the need for organizations to provide protections and support for social workers of color that explicitly address the many forms of institutional and interpersonal racism they experience, as well as steps organizations can take to transform into anti-racist organizations. Wayne also shares how he got into this work. I hope this conversation inspires you to action.

X @wayne_reid79
LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/wayne-reid
Email wayne.reid@basw.co.uk

Music credit:

“District Four” Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

TRANSCRIPT

Shimon Cohen:

Welcome to Doin' The Work: Frontline Stories of Social Change, where we bring you stories of real people working to address real issues. I am your host, Shimon Cohen.

In this episode, I talk with Wayne Reid, who is a Professional Officer and Anti-Racism Visionary at the British Association of Social Workers, BASW. Wayne is my first international guest and I'm so grateful. Wayne talks about how his understanding of anti-racism in social work and his motivation for speaking out and taking action was catalyzed by the murder of George Floyd. He discusses a number of projects he and BASW have been working on specific to anti-racism in social work. Check out the link to his extensive portfolio in the show notes. These are excellent resources. Wayne shares what anti-racist social work means to him and how a concept that should be straightforward becomes very complex in application due to the embeddedness of white supremacy and racism in laws, policies, institutions, beliefs, and actions. We discuss how no one wants to say they are racist, but actions that support racist policies are being done in the regular operations of social work practice.

Wayne talks about his "pure, proactive, and unapologetic" approach to anti-racism within social work and the need for this approach due to constantly being up against white supremacy both as a Black man and as a Black male social worker. He discusses the need for social workers to practice anti-racism as part of our standards of conduct, not just with clients, but with colleagues, and the need for organizations to provide protections and support for social workers of color that explicitly address the many forms of institutional and interpersonal racism they experience, as well as steps organizations can take to transform into anti-racist organizations. Wayne also shares how he got into this work. I hope this conversation inspires you to action.

Hey, Wayne. Thanks so much for coming on Doin' The Work. I'm really excited to talk with you. I've been following your work for a while. I know we got to connect on Twitter and, now, LinkedIn. Let's just start off by you letting us know... letting the listeners know... a little bit about yourself and what you currently do.

Wayne Reid:

Okay. Thank you, Shimon, for having me on Doin' The Work. I really appreciate that. My role... I work for an organization in England called the British Association of Social Workers. We are a UK-wide organization, but I work in the England team. My work over the last just over 12 months since George Floyd's murder has been primarily around anti-racism in social work. Although, I do have a sort of substantive role at BASW, where I'm a generic professional officer and I'm involved in various aspects of social work in terms of specialisms such mental health, criminal justice, et cetera. But as I mentioned, over the last 12 months, a lot of my work has been focused really on anti-racism in social work. I've been involved in various initiatives and projects, which has been really fruitful.

Shimon Cohen:

I'm so interested to have that conversation because it seems that, historically, anti-racist social work has been more discussed in England than in the United States. You're my first international interview, so-

Wayne Reid:

I'm honored.

Shimon Cohen:

... you get the credit for that. I'm wondering maybe if you could talk a little bit about your experience with the history of anti-racist social work in England and, now, what is maybe different. What's happening now and the direction you see things going.

Wayne Reid:

My own personal involvement with anti-racism in social work, to be honest, has been very brief. Just during that period I've described since George Floyd's murder. It was that incident that really, I guess, kick-started me, instigated me, to become more outspoken and more vocal about my opinions about racism within social work, specifically. In terms of the profession and its history with anti-racism, I only really became aware of anti-racism in social work, again, around the time of George Floyd's murder, in terms of the resurgence of the Black Lives Matter movement globally. Suddenly, that term came on my radar.

Wayne Reid:

Having worked in social work for around... Well, social work and social care, because they are distinct in the UK. But having worked in that arena for the best part of 20 years, I'd never really heard of anti-racism, to be honest. There was a history and there is a definite core fundamental aspect to social work in terms of anti-oppression and anti-discrimination. Those were values and ethics which I was supported with and introduced to by veteran social workers earlier on in my career. And then when I undertook my degree to become a qualified social worker, those were values that were mentioned. It was still fairly intrinsic, I think, to social work at that time. But suddenly over the last 10 years or so... Since austerity that you may have heard of possibly, it's impacted the UK... I feel it's really slid off the agenda. And then the alignment of George Floyd's murder kind of brought all that into sharp focus of how it was really impacting communities and society and minoritized groups. So, yeah, there was a lot of different tectonic plates almost that just seemed to kind of align over the last year. I hope that gives some insight into how we've arrived at the point where we have in England.

Shimon Cohen:

Absolutely. The work you're doing now focused on anti-racist social work in England with BASW... What have you been doing? Tell us about what you've been doing.

Wayne Reid:

Well, I've been doing a bit of this and a bit of that, really. There's a number of different things. There's a book called Outlanders: The Hidden Narratives of Social Workers of Color, which I compiled and co-edited with a social worker called Siobhan Maclean, who's also what's called a practice educator over here. Those are the people who would support social work students throughout their studies. Siobhan is also a publisher as well. We had the idea of coming up with the book and we came up with the name Outlanders because we just though it described perfectly the experiences of social workers of color in England and the UK. So, that publication includes essays, stories, poems, and other miscellaneous works from the perspectives of Black and ethnic minority social workers specifically. It's quite unique, so we're particularly proud of that.

Wayne Reid:

There's a group in my organization, BASW, that I've created, which is called the Black and Ethnic Minority Professionals Symposium or BPS. That group consists of 15 social workers across England, all from different social work specialist backgrounds. Some are in children and families. Some might be working with adults. Some might be in the mental health service, for example. They're all in different locations across England, but we come together to create a space for them to be able to offload. Because that's very necessary. Because of the institutional racism that we face in social work. Also, it's a good space for us to be able to strategize and mobilize, really, in terms of some of the innovations and campaigns and resources that we want to develop and look at.

Wayne Reid:

There's various things, Shimon, that I could talk about. In terms of George Floyd's anniversary, for example, which has recently passed, I authored a report for BASW, which compiled all of the anti-racism in social work activities that have taken place across England, the UK, over that 12-month period in terms of the anniversary. It was very extensive. It's available on the BASW website. So, again, there's all sorts of stuff that I've been doing, really. I could go on. I'll perhaps share my portfolio with you. You might be able to share that with our listeners perhaps.

Shimon Cohen:

Absolutely. Yeah. I can link that in the show notes and also a link on the podcast website. I wanted to come back to a couple things you've said. The first, I think, is that... and these connect together. The first is that you talked about that you've been working in social work for about 20 years and hadn't heard of anti-racist social work. I can really relate to that as well. It took me a long time to come to that terminology. It was not taught in any of the programs in my education. And so when I heard you saying that, I really resonated with that. So, then, you also talked about institutional racism in social work. That's part of the institutional racism is the fact that it's not discussed in education, so then social workers are leaving and practicing social work in a certain way, without this anti-racist framework, analysis, and practice. So, I was kind of wondering if you could talk about that. What does anti-racist social work mean to you and look like in practice? I understand there's not going to be like one clear way because different practice contexts, but if you could say what it means to you and what that means for you to put into practice.

Wayne Reid:

For me, I subscribe to the definition by Ibram X. Kendi in his book How to Be an Antiracist. I don't know if you're familiar with that book, Shimon.

Shimon Cohen:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely.

Wayne Reid:

It was kind of... or is a big hit over here as well. The definition that he outlines is that it's a belief that all races and ethnic groups are equal and deserving of the same opportunities and that anti-racism... the crux of it, really, is about doing something and taking action about the existing inequality. Although that might seem very straightforward, I think in reality, actually, although it is simple, it's just not seen in that simplistic way. It's sort of overcomplicated. It really requires people to not be asking questions: Do we have any racism here? Or does institutional racism really exist? It's more a question of it clearly does. There's an overwhelming base of evidence. I'm sure there is globally. Not just in England. So, it's sort of a case of why are people sat on their hands? Why aren't they doing something?

Wayne Reid:

Some of that points directly towards white supremacy for me. I'm not saying that any kind of... in a way where I'm pointing the finger necessarily. It's more about people not recognizing those existing structures, processes, and policies and procedures, et cetera, which are just inherently racist. They're just going along with them blindly and not actually thinking critically or being self-aware about how that actually impacts and influences their decisions and their actions. They're just taking the position that, well, I'm not racist. Do you know what I mean? Nobody wants to admit being a racist, but they are actually impacted by the racist structures and systems and things that are in place. Nobody's immune from that. So, I hope that is coherent in terms of my perspective on anti-racism.

Wayne Reid:

In terms of institutional racism, I've written quite a bit about that. Again, some of the articles will be available in the portfolio I send you. There're all hyperlinks on there as well. The stuff is on the internet. In terms of social work, I think there's undoubtedly indicators of institutional racism, but so is there in many other professions. Social work isn't specifically institutionally racist. Most, if not all, institutions and organizations to some degree are. Where on that spectrum they are, but they have to acknowledge it exists to begin with before they can even judge where they are. So, yeah. That's my take on institutional racism. I suppose I'll just end that by saying that I... Again, I subscribe to the view of the William Macpherson report. I don't know if you're familiar with that, but that was a report that was written as a consequence of the murder of Stephen Lawrence, which was a huge, high-profile case in England in the '90s of a young Black male who was killed. There's lots more to that story, but it was very high profile. The independent report that was written concluded that institutional racism was prevalent within the police force. I think that has some correlations with social work. But I also think that we need to also talk about racist policies and their effect on the experiences of social workers of color and service users of color as well.

Shimon Cohen:

Absolutely. The analysis we should have as social workers is that we're always looking at policy. I think something that is important to point out... and you're right that institutional racism is not unique to social work. It's across all fields, professions. But social work is different in the sense that we say we're all about social justice. Some of these other professions don't claim to be that. We're claiming to be something and then we're not. I think that also is a barrier to then doing work on it. I was wondering... Because, then, it's kind of like what you said. When people are like, "Well, I'm not racist," it's like, where are the racists? You're not racist, I'm not racist, but yet the actions are racist. Because they're supporting these racist policies. Harm is being done all under the guise of social justice.

Wayne Reid:

Yeah. I agree. In terms of my experiences of social work, there are... I observe that there is a kind of complacency, where people think, well, I learned about this stuff at uni or, as you say, it's kind of something that is discussed in social work. It's referred to perhaps more than other professions, so because of that, people think, well, we're doing our bit. Other professions aren't or other professionals aren't. But I do think there is a big difference between talking the talk and walking the walk. In academia, within social work in England and the UK, there is a strong body of work around anti-racism that, as I say, I wasn't really aware of prior to George Floyd's murder, but I've certainly unearthed it in the last year or so.

Wayne Reid:

And then there's other interrelated aspects as well or interlinked factors such as cultural competence, for example. Part of the rhetoric within social work in England at the moment is around equality, diversity, and inclusion, which then considers the range of protected characteristics such as disability, gender, sexuality, and so on. But also then looking at it in terms of ethnic diversity, cultural diversity, religion, the inclusion of people from some of those minoritized groups. My critique of that, I suppose, is that it's very necessary to look at certain things from that perspective sometimes, but not all of the time. Sometimes we need to look at these things in terms of their individual validity, I suppose, and their individual relevance in a particular situation and kind of deconstruct and reconstruct that. Instead, there seems to be a tendency to just look at things in the round, in my view, and I think that that disadvantages all of those groups, really.

Shimon Cohen:

Yeah. I also think... I was taught about cultural competence in social work education and I wanted to be a good social worker. As someone who's White and male, I wanted to be culturally competent. And then, over time, I've learned that there's actually a really strong critique of cultural competence as perpetuating racism in the sense that we can't be competent, number one, in someone else's culture. This whole idea of competence is a very power ego type-

Wayne Reid:

That's true.

Shimon Cohen:

Also, it doesn't have a power analysis. Cultural competence is like... To me, anti-racism would have an analysis of power. Who has power? Predominantly White people. And who's being targeted historically and currently? People of color. Specifically, Black folks. And then, on that scale of Black, proximity to Blackness. Cultural competence doesn't really address that. It's like, okay, so, I'm of this culture, you're of that culture, let's just learn each other's cultures and everything's good. You know?

Wayne Reid:

I do. Yeah. And I would say every day is a school day. Because I've not really considered cultural competence, I suppose, to that degree. I've learned about it as part of my studies going back some years and it's something I'm aware has been critiqued. I suppose, speaking quite honestly, I don't really consider myself as an academic, Shimon. I've always considered myself as a practitioner. When I was in frontline practice in different roles and now. I mean, I've not been in frontline roles, in my role at BASW for four years. But since I've been doing the anti-racism work, I see myself, I guess, more of an activist now. So, in terms of talking about it... Obviously, I'm doing a podcast, so it's slightly ironic, but I don't really almost want to focus too much on the talking about it. Because there's a lot of talk that's going on, if you see what I mean, about anti-racism, but in terms of outputs and outcomes, less so. It's more about just getting stuff done for me. You see what I mean? So, in terms of cultural competence, I suppose there are different ways in which what we're talking about can be framed and can be articulated. For me, it's like, well, whatever we're calling it, great. Let's just crack on and do it. Do you see what I mean?

Shimon Cohen:

Yeah. You're about the action.

Wayne Reid:

Exactly. If we don't get it right first time, then we just go back to the drawing board and say how can we improve that and refine it? So, yeah. That's my emphasis, but I appreciate it's not universally... I'm sure not everybody sees everything from that point of view.

Shimon Cohen:

No. I mean, I think it takes a lot of different folks to do this work together. Let's get back to that part. I know in your writing, you talk about being "pure, proactive, and unapologetic." What does that mean to you and how do you put that into action? To get back to the action part.

Wayne Reid:

Being pure, proactive, and unapologetic is really about me not speaking on behalf of anybody else. Just speaking for myself, really, which is difficult to navigate sometimes. But it's also about, I guess, me being quite forthright and militant, I guess, in some of the ways that I've had to approach anti-racism in social work just by sheer virtue of the fact that I'm up against white supremacy, aren't I, basically. I'm putting myself and everything that I do in the spotlight in that regards, so I'm very aware of that. That can't be... I can't approach in a way where I'm just going to be like a daisy in the wind. I've got to be able to withstand certain pressures. Some of which... I'm fortunate that, as we've talked about, in social work, people are a little bit more aware of some of these issues. Of course, racism still exists, as we know.

Wayne Reid:

But I'm still faced a kind of personal, professional, in a cultural way by factors of white supremacy both directly and indirectly as a result of that, so that requires me, really, to be pure, proactive, and unapologetic. Combative at times. Militant. Not in a way that's uncontrolled and savage or subhuman, as sometimes Black people can be framed, but just in a way where I think anybody who feels like they're put in a desperate position where... It's literally life and death for some Black people. For some people, it could be an end all of their careers if they are potentially going to be struck off the social work register for institutional racism. So, that's why I have to conduct myself in that way.

Wayne Reid:

Also, then... just to dissect it a little bit... Pure in the sense that I believe that I'm authentic and I'm fully committed to anti-racism and I embody social work values. That might sound quite egocentric, but I just have to believe that that's what I'm about. I try to keep reassuring myself of that by doing certain things both personally and professionally that make me think, yeah, I'm as pure as I can be. Proactive in the sense that I've done a lot of work of my own steam. With the support of my colleagues and organization and members. I've got a very supportive manager who I consider to be a mentor. And an ally. I don't say that lightly. Nonetheless, most of my anti-racism outputs over the last 18 months have required me to instigate them. I don't say that to sound big-headed. It's just... It's fact. I think the report I referred to that was published for George Floyd's anniversary kind of evidences that.

Wayne Reid:

Finally, unapologetic in my language, tone, decision-making at times. As I mentioned before, I've had to be assertive. I've had to be bold and a bit ruthless, really, in some of the articles that I've put... arguably put my neck on the line, raised my head above the precipice. The hammer of white supremacy is probably waiting there somewhere to put me back in my place at some point, but I just felt I needed to do that to resurrect the importance of anti-racism in social work, really.

Shimon Cohen:

You've mentioned a few times as we've been talking about... I get a sense of... I don't know if you would frame it this way, but I kind of get... So, tell me if I'm off. But this vulnerability. This position of vulnerability that you're in because you're doing this work and you're doing this work as a Black man-

Wayne Reid:

That's the one. Yeah.

Shimon Cohen:

... in this white supremacist society and how it spills into the profession. I was just wondering if you could speak a little bit more about that. Where do you see pushback happening on what you're working on?

Wayne Reid:

Well, the pushback, I think, presents itself in different ways. Sometimes it's just a stonewall silence from those who you would look to to make some change. Push some influence in their particular space or their particular remit of responsibilities. There's just a stonewall silence. That's one particular reaction. Others are sort of seek and destroy. I think that can happen both at an individual or interpersonal level, where the people might not even know they're doing it sometimes. They might not even be consciously aware. But there can be almost... It can feel like people are trying to trip you up or make things more difficult for you. I've talked about some of the projects I've been involved in, but those are just tip of the iceberg, to be honest. There's been an absolute plethora. With that, I would say, actually, it's been fairly straightforward in that, as I say, I've had to be a self-starter with stuff. Although I've collaborated and I've tried to partner with people, both internally within my organization and externally, I've had to be quite dogged, really, and narrow-minded.

Wayne Reid:

So, in some ways, I've shielded myself from that. Also, COVID has helped inadvertently, really. With the pandemic and working from home, I've just been a lot more productive, where I would normally be traveling the country and maybe not as productive because of that. So, because of those things, I feel that I've perhaps been shielded from some of the silence and the attempts to trip me up, but they've been there nonetheless. I suppose, more recently, I've become more aware of that and have not only had to manage the challenges and obstacles of championing an anti-racist social work. I've also had to then use some energy and some head space for navigating these unfortunate events, shall we say, that arise where you would expect people, both near and far, to know a bit better, really, and to, I guess, show more loyalty to the movement. And so that can be both disappointing, but also, I guess, it fuels me to want to push on.

Shimon Cohen:

Do you have concerns of what could happen to you within social work based on the work you're doing?

Wayne Reid:

I suppose I'd be fibbing if I said it hadn't crossed my mind, but I'd like to think that... I'm quite... I'm not a religious person, but I am a spiritual person in the sense that I don't try to... I believe in karma and those sort of things, for example. I don't think there's anything that I've done which I feel uncomfortable with both currently or in retrospect. I'm aware that even innocent Black people get mauled sometimes. I suppose I have to just focus on the positive and be optimistic. I'd like to think that... I've never been critical of individuals. More about policies and structures and organizations. I think that, although it's been robust challenge at times, it's always been professional. It's always been coherent and credible. It's always been evidence-based. Do you see what I mean? Although the rope might get pulled at some point, well, I just have to deal with that in the same way that everybody has to deal with the challenges that life throws at them. One of the most important things for me is being able to rest my head easy at night knowing that I've done what I can do for the right causes. Because the situation is so desperate, really, locally and globally that it just requires me to do that. I just can only hope that karma looks on that favorably and the other spiritual ideologies that I'm into.

Shimon Cohen:

I really appreciate you sharing that perspective and that deeper sense, too, of what fuels you. I think that's so important because this is hard work and everyone doing it from... Because I've talked to so many... I'm always talking to different folks. There's that fuel. People have to have that fuel and then keep refueling. Because it can get... It can deplete.

Wayne Reid:

It can. And I've had my moments. It's not all... How can you say? Although, I guess it may appear... because of the social media persona and the various outputs, as I say, it has been over the last year... I think there might be a tendency to think he's just happy all the time. He's always upbeat. I'm sure my wife would say a very different story. And I know that I'm not always cheery and light all the time. You can't be with anti-racism in social work. We're not talking about X Factor or stuff where it's just all fairy and light. It's serious stuff. It's life-threatening stuff. It's career-ending stuff. I have to counteract that, I feel, with bringing a certain charisma to it, but it's difficult to maintain and I don't achieve it all the time.

Shimon Cohen:

Are there specific agenda items or policies that you're currently working on as part of an overall anti-racism agenda within social work?

Wayne Reid:

At a policy level, yeah. There's a couple. Well, there is an advisory group that I'm now part of, which is... It derives from a government department, the Department of Health and Social Care, and it's a standard called the Workforce Race and Equality Standard, which will be rolled out across the country. We're currently in the early stages of that. It's around collecting the data of the workforce in terms of their ethnic diversity, the experiences that they have, the outcomes in terms of complaints, and various other metrics. It's very much in the early stage and I've only just... I think we'll be having our first meeting, proper meeting, next week. I'm really pleased that a policy level, nationally. That that's something that the government department is supporting. Obviously, I am pleased to be part of that. I'll be very much pushing the anti-racism agenda, of course, as well as raising the profile of social work generally. Because sometimes I think it is overshadowed by the health service in our country. I don't know if you're aware of that or if there's a similar thing that happens in the USA. So, that's one area of policy that I'm involved in.

Wayne Reid:

The other area, I suppose, is less formal than that. I've written extensively about the regulatory standards which social workers are held to account over and the fact that they don't explicitly include anti-racist, anti-oppressive, or anti-discriminatory values and ethics. It's something I feel strongly about. My organization, BASW, are also on board with that campaign. So, that's something that is ongoing that we're hoping that we can work with the regulator to try and revisit those standards. Also, at the moment, those standards refer to social workers' general conduct and interactions with service users. Given the events of the last year, I think it's probably also important that we include the relationship of the conduct between colleagues as well. That needs to be explicitly included about that being anti-racist. Anti-oppressive. Because there is a lot of racism that goes on between colleagues. There's also a lack of accountability in terms of employers and what they should be providing in terms of protections and support for social workers of color. So, there's some interwoven... separate, but interwoven campaigns there, which I think it's important that social work generally gets on board with in this country.

Shimon Cohen:

Yeah, absolutely. Can you talk a little bit about that final piece you were saying about the protections for social workers of color and why those protections are needed?

Wayne Reid:

The protections are... How I envision this is... Institutional racism clearly exists in abundance, as I mentioned before, and it's as if that is just completely ignored for social workers of color and they're expected to just get on with the job anyway. The racism that they might experience from service users... children and families, adults, the professionals, and so on. That's one aspect of it. But then they've got the racism they might get from their colleagues, their employers. The racism they might face in terms of career progression. All sorts of multidimensional racism, but also racism that will affect people at different stages of their careers potentially. There's just no regard for that.

Wayne Reid:

And so I think it's important that there are protections put in place that are organizational level or local level, but also a national level as well, that recognizes that there is this additional burden that social workers of color have in comparison with their White colleagues and with that should be the necessary support. I've written an article on this which is called How to Promote an Anti-Racist Culture in Social Work and it outlines different solutions that I feel could really help social work organizations... or any organization, really, but because social work is my bread and butter, that's what I talk about. But there's lots of transferrable solutions there which aren't necessarily going to break the bank either.

Wayne Reid:

It just requires, I guess, a new way of thinking. A different reframing of how protections and support are provide. Not just for people of color, not just for social workers of color, but for all the cultural or diverse needs within the workplace based on people's protective characteristics. Do you see what I mean? So, ideally... It might look differently in different organizations, but there's an overarching national framework that kind of... It gives employers something to aspire to. To be held accountable to. For social workers of color to complain to, perhaps, if they feel they're being mistreated. Do you see what I mean? Whereas, at the moment, we just don't have any of that. It's just like, just get on with it, basically.

Shimon Cohen:

We'll definitely link to that article. I appreciate you sharing about that. Just to touch on solutions, you mentioned one. That there would be these mechanisms that social workers of color would have protections. They'd be able to bring up incidents of mistreatment that they're experiencing. What are just maybe one or two other solutions that you touch on?

Wayne Reid:

In the article, there's actually a framework as well that I created called the Anti-Racist Commitment Framework, which gives an overarching perspective on how anti-racism could be implemented within the workplace. Just to give you a brief overview of those, then, the first strand is around accelerating diversity within an organization. Building a workforce that's reflective of the local community. And then, in the article, I give a few examples of how that might be done. The other strand is about educating, empowering, and equipping the workforce, which is about training and development. Ensuring that anti-racist training is incorporated, but also caters for people's different learning styles. So, not on an individual basis... because, of course, that would just be impossible... but rather than just one size fits all approach, there's actually some different types of training or professional development that people can tap into based on their particular learning style. Again, I give some examples. Another strand is leading by example. How senior managers and heads of service can demonstrate that they're committed to working in an anti-racist and anti-oppressive and anti-discriminatory way and instilling that within the workforce. And then the final strand is about building transparency. That's using data... not just collecting data, but actually using the data that we have to implement some of the protections and support that I mentioned before.

Shimon Cohen:

That's great. Thank you for covering all that. I have a couple other questions for you as we get towards the end of our discussion. Again, I'm so grateful for this conversation and for the work you do. I look forward to continued communication.

Wayne Reid:

Me as well.

Shimon Cohen:

How do you see... I know you've written about some of your background in some of your writing. How do you see race and class intersecting in terms of how it impacts who you are and what you bring to the work you do?

Wayne Reid:

Well, I spoke at an event recently called the Working Class Academics Conference, where I got to present almost, I guess, my life story or my pathway into social work, which was a little bit like This is Your Life, if you ever saw that program back in the day. I don't know if you got that in the USA. So, yeah. I also captured it in the book Outlanders that I referred to before in a story called Ambition Navigation, which charts the pathway. This opportunity at the conference was about presenting that to an audience virtually, so it's actually very timely that you asked that question.

Wayne Reid:

In terms of my background, both my parents have been in reasonably paid jobs... Not fantastically paid, but certainly quite unpredictable at times... We had to free school meals and things like that on occasion. I come from a predominantly White British council estate in Sheffield, so my experience is probably quite unique compared to some other Black guys from similar West Indian backgrounds such as myself. Because of that, I suppose it gave me a unique outlook as well. Some of that involve me falling into social work by accident, which I cover in the story, so I'll not steal my own thunder. But by falling into social work, it took me on a bit of a conveyor belt, if I'm honest. I found myself making decisions, going for jobs, really wanting to make a difference, I suppose, without me ever really consciously thinking about it.

Wayne Reid:

And then, now, I find myself in this position, where all of the things that I've previously done, which quite a lot of different social work roles, such as working for a youth offending team... I've worked with care leavers. I've worked with foster children and families. I've worked with adult offenders. Various things in the frontline roles that I had. But looking back, it was all kind of... I'm probably getting all spiritual, but it was as if it was meant to work out that way, really, for me to be able to have all the internal resources that I need for what I'm doing at the moment. I suppose the other thing I should say is that, although I come from a very working class background and I'm very proud of that and I do wear it like a badge sometimes when I'm around middle class people... and social work can be quite middle class in the UK... I find myself maybe talking a bit broader without even realizing it. My body language might change without me being consciously aware. So, yeah. I do wear it as a bit of a badge of honor. I'm fortunate enough to live in a fairly affluent place at the moment, so again, I find myself switching into working class mode sometimes down at the pub inadvertently. But I'm very proud, as I say, of the working class roots that I have.

Shimon Cohen:

Thank you for sharing that. What do you love about this work?

Wayne Reid:

Do you mean anti-racism specifically or social work generally?

Shimon Cohen:

Well, at this point, for you, can you separate that?

Wayne Reid:

Kind of. In the sense that... We talked about this resistance, I guess, that there is, in some ways, to anti-racism within social work. Because I'm not in a frontline social work role. Both of those things kind of mean that what I'm doing is almost... It feels at times like... It's a bit insular. Possibly because I'm working from home as well and I have done all throughout the pandemic. It just feels very insular and as if... As I say, there's just a bit of a silence from some quarters. In terms of being able to separate it, I can easily do that sometimes. It's difficult to separate the work-life balance, honestly. That's one of my challenges. But yeah. It's not so difficult to separate the anti-racism from the social work because it's a bit like... Well, the way I go about it as well is that, although I specifically badge it as anti-racism in social work, it's actually universal as well. It's applicable... A lot of it is transferrable to other professions. I've worked with people on the periphery of social work and some from completely different professions as well. I sort of want to keep that universality about it. Obviously, I badge it as social work, but there is this kind of gulf, it feels like, sometimes, sadly, just because it doesn't always get the kind of reception from those with power and influence that I would like.

Shimon Cohen:

As we're wrapping up, since you're on this platform and you've got the mic, any final thoughts you want to get out there to anyone who's listening or reading the transcript?

Wayne Reid:

I suppose just do the right thing. It might sound really simple, but just do the right thing. When faced with evidence, base your thinking on that evidence. And then, when you get a new piece of evidence, put the two together and join the dots and just keep doing the right thing each time. That's my simplistic way of concluding this. In terms of race, I think just look at all the outcomes. It's overwhelming. As I was saying before, it's abundantly clear who's at the bottom of the food chain as far as socioeconomics and sociopolitics. Not just in England, but globally. You look across the world, you look at the history, it's overbearingly clear that Black people, people of color, are sort of at the bottom of the food chain, as I say. Although there are shining examples of Black people being successful, some of it is about how we define that success as well. Because if we're talking about success within a capitalist culture, then is that really success? Is that just material success? For me, I think... I'm a bit deeper than that, as I was saying before. I think we need real equality in terms of the way that Black people are positioned globally.

Shimon Cohen:

Wayne, thank you so much for your message, for taking the time to talk with me, and to come on Doin' The Work. Most of all, thank you for doin' the work out in the community.

Wayne Reid:

Thank you. I appreciate that. When you reached out to me and said, "Do you want to come on Doin' The Work?" I thought, well, yeah. Because I am doing the work. I'm literally... It might sound a bit egocentric, but I feel like I do live and breathe it at the moment. So, I really appreciate you inviting me on this. Because it is a great opportunity. I'll continue to do the work best I can. I know that it won't last forever. I'm conscious that there's a window there. And there's also a limit that I have put on it as well. That's the reality. I don't want to... I've been referred to as the Malcolm X of social work from certain people in England. I don't want to be framed as that individual all of the time for the rest of my life, but whilst I'm doing this, I'll do the best I can. So, thanks ever so much.

Shimon Cohen:

Thank you for listening to Doin' The Work: Frontline Stories of Social Change. I hope you enjoyed the podcast. Please follow on Twitter and leave positive reviews on iTunes. If you're interested in being a guest or know someone who is doing great work, please get in touch. Thank you for doing real work to make this world a better place.

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Anti-Racist Social Work in England – Wayne Reid

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